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eBay - Why Amazon Should Buy It? 
Post: #1   PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:22 am Reply with quote
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For years it was impossible to even suggest that Amazon buy eBay
because eBay’s market value was three or four times that of Amazon.
And there was good reason for that: eBay’s margins have been far higher
because it simply moves bits around, while Amazon has to move boxes
(and take the risk of owning inventory it can’t sell). [ Read Full Article ]
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Post: #2   PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:42 pm Reply with quote
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What a terrifying thought. Amazon are a well run efficient company with a great reputation and with excellent customer service. eBay are, well eBay. The cultures are completely different and all buying eBay would do is just drag Amazon down. Already, as the article indicates, more and more people are discovering Amazon Marketplace. I frequently use it myself and would recommend it to anyone. Amazon stand 100% behind every transaction and the money is paid through them. With eBay you take a gamble every time you buy from someone new and eBay's interpretation of customer service could be summed up as "It's customer service Jim, but not as we know it".

Fortunately the article seems to be pure conjecture. All Amazon have to do is carry on as they are doing and push the Marketplace even more. Meanwhile as fraud & other problems continue to beset eBay and the directors continue to unload their under-performing shares, the site will continue to haemorrhage customers and sellers. I don't know where eBay will be in 2 years time,let alone 5, but I would be staggerered if it became an Amazon subsidiary!
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Post: #3   PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:05 am Reply with quote
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Hi,

Well I for one hope they don't become part of Amazon and agree that it's conjecture but it is a good discussion point.

I certainly cannot knock eBay and think it has over the years revolutionised online trading in countries worldwide. It's allowed millions of people to earn a living where previously this was not possible. Not many sites can say that and I often think eBay does get some unfair press. Technically the feat is amazing and dealing with eBay's API gives an indication as to the amount of stuff going on behind the scenes - which is phenomenal. I don't doubt that there are quite a few aspects of the business that could do with changing but show me one business that keeps everyone happy.

I obviously see peoples complaints but speaking from my own experience I have never once had a problem with communication from eBay. Over the years I have sold well over 1500 items without any real issues with them - though during that time it was only one small sales avenue for us. I must add that I don't sell anything any longer but from an affiliate point of view I can say that I certainly don't see sales falling. The number of bids/sales & new registrations is without question a lot higher than the same time last year - for us anyway.

Now the above doesn't mean I agree with everything that they do nor the manner in which they do it. The challenges that lay ahead for eBay are undoubtedly going to be difficult, but for me I don't think they get enough credit for what they have done and continue to do.

eBay is not perfect but despite all the complaints nobody has yet even come close to being able to compete which says a lot for what they have achieved.

Reading back the above it sounds like a rant lol but my intention was only to give a bit of balance.

Cheers

Steve
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Post: #4   PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:38 am Reply with quote
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Hi Steve

I appreciate there are widely varying views on eBay and people have very different experiences of it. Also I readily concede it brought something new to the marketplace and no competitor so far has got within light years of being a challenge to it in most markets (though there are many countries such as in China, Japan, eastern Europe where that is not the case). I am also sure there is a huge amount of activity that goes on behind the scenes to sustain and develop it, though I don't doubt the same could be said of sites such as Amazon.

My own direct experience of eBay is based on over 700 transactions of which probably roughly two thirds were sales. On those occasions I have had problems I have found the "customer service" laughable. Getting a direct answer to a question seems almost impossible, instead you get caught up in email ping pong where set form replies are sent which don't answer the question you asked. They are also a company who are very difficult to contact by phone. And all this compares very badly with other large online retailers. I know its different if you are a Power Seller or other large seller with a store but I wasn't and for people in my position communication with eBay was and is frustrating and frequently unsatisfactory. That is why the eBay forums and many other forums are full of moans about this. Everytime I had a problem, and fortunately none of mine were major, I gave up in the end trying to get to the bottom of it because life is too short and I've better things to do.

It's interesting to hear that registrations there are increasing. I must admit that surprises me. Many people are complaining that it is a declining marketplace and that's been my experience. I rarely put anything up for sale there as the chances of selling it seem far less than a year ago. Nevertheless I can see that this could be limited to certain categories and there may be some areas, which I don't go into, that are flourishing. But I still have problems with eBay over their pushing of PayPal as a payment method (of course they own it) and their refusal to allow Google Checkout. Their excuse that it hasn't yet proved itself to be a secure payment method is frankly a sham but it's a convenient excuse to keep a competitor out. Then there are the real concerns about how far the Romanian hacker Vladuz got into the deepest recesses of eBay. There were after all for a few hours the posting of some credit card details on the eBay forums & Vladuz posting as a "pink" (eBay staff member) and of course the hi-jacking of hundreds of car listings some months ago. When I buy from Amazon I don't, as far as I know, have to worry about security issues, card theft, identity theft etc., but on eBay such issues remain. They have my bank details, they have my card details; I have to keep my fingers crossed that no-one else extracts them!
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Post: #5   PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:24 pm Reply with quote
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Hi,

Some good points there!

On registrations and sales I can only speak from my viewpoint but certainly have seen sales go up by several hundred a week year on year. That's confirmed sales so obviously the number of bids has also increased. On registrations I have seen an increase overall of about 25% over last year with the UK site seeing the most - for me anyway.

On the security issue then it seems to me that eBay has become a bigger target than most so it's difficult to compare like for like. The issue of what does or has gone on is always shrouded in doubt with claim and counter claim so the picture is not clear. The posting of CC details in September this year is such an example as it was unclear whether the CC info actually related to the 1200 members. Certainly eBay has said that the CC details did not match with any info it had on record. Of course any security breach is serious but when you have over 204 million registered users then any problem is going to be magnified.

I would not wish security problems on any site but do you really think that any of the auction sites would be able to handle it any better? Whilst Amazon is good it is not immune to hackers though I don't think it is as big a target as eBay. Still even they have had serious security leaks in the past at a subsidiary which meant that 1000's of CC details were available to hackers.

On the support issue I guess I must have been lucky - however I do agree that it needs improving. I thought that the Live Help that it offered a while ago on the UK site was a good compromise and used it twice with success. However I found out that they had removed this facility which didn't seem to make sense to me. I don't agree that it needs telephone support but it does need a better approach as this seems to be one of the biggest gripes.

As for Paypal I have used it since it started and touch wood have never had a problem with it. Keeping Google checkout off eBay is obviously a commercial decision but there again it is a business. I haven't used the Google checkout so cannot really say anything about that.

Cheers

Steve
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Post: #6   PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:09 pm Reply with quote
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Maybe the reason eBay is undoubtedly such a big target is that sophisticated fraudsters believe/know it has a lot of weaknesses that can be exploited. It would help if eBay were more frank about apparent security breaches but it is difficult to take everything they say at face value, according to many far more knowledgeable people than me. Maybe protecting the share price is a factor in this. So do I think other auction sites handle security issues better - well subjectively I do feel a few appear to do so. To give some examples, the people who run sites such as Specialist Auctions, Auctions Worldwide/GB Auctions, Tazbar and the former auction site IWAC (now IWACStores) did give me the impression that they were active in patrolling/monitoring their sites for hackers, spammers, sellers of counterfeit goods and other crooks as well as being on the ball in responding to complaints about listings & other issues.

Conversely, as I’ve visited some other auction sites I’ve got the distinct impression that security was something that the owners were either unaware of or unconcerned about. That frequently seems associated with “free” sites which is understandable as there is no income coming in from users to plough back into the site. But as I say this is a subjective view and only time will tell which sites have sufficient security in place to withstand the increasing attacks from the criminal fraternity.

On the issue of payment portals, yes eBay is a business so you can see why they want to encourage the use of PayPal. But it could be argued that under EU law there is a conflict here in that this may be a breach of competition law. It’s surprising that no-one seems to have looked at this closely in view of the fuss the EU has made over Microsoft. Maybe it will be eBay’s turn next? As far as Google Checkout is concerned, my only experience of it is as a buyer and I found it very straightforward. As I already had a Google account for email, I didn’t have to sign up again. Like PayPal your card details aren’t passed to the merchant.
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Post: #7   PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:38 pm Reply with quote
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Hi again,

Quote:

Maybe the reason eBay is undoubtedly such a big target is that sophisticated fraudsters believe/know it has a lot of weaknesses that can be exploited. It would help if eBay were more frank about apparent security breaches but it is difficult to take everything they say at face value, according to many far more knowledgeable people than me.


Or maybe the hackers know that if they attack eBay they are likely to make good press out of it? I doubt eBay or any such company would be totally frank about security issues as that would be counter productive. For a lot of hackers the kudos in hitting a big site is what they are after as it's a challenge. That's why people are seeing attacks on eBay, Google, Amazon etc etc - more press and more potential income out of it. I most certainly doubt that the other sites you mention are using software that has no weaknesses that can be exploited.

A determined hacker would IMHO take out all but the biggest sites who can have staff and systems in place specifically to deal with the threat of hackers. The larger & more complex the site the more opportunities for the hacker to gain access. (BTW I am not talking here about the kiddie hackers)

Comparing auction sites with a few thousand members/lots to eBay is like comparing your corner shop to Wal-mart Smile Both are going to have security issues but Wal-Marts are going to be larger simply because of the scale. Yes it's reasonably straightforward to check out a few hundred new lots a day but a different thing altogether to check a few hundred thousand.

There is obviously a market for all auction sites but invariably you find that when a sites starts to get bigger and more noticable that is when problems can occur. I don't doubt that for instance the owners of say Tazbar can appreciate more of the problems eBay experiences now they are getting bigger. Similarly when I ran an auction site years ago (with only a few thousand lots) the amount of attempted frauds and dodgy or gullible members amazed me and gave a small insight into what it must take to run a large site.

As for the EU and anti-competition this is an area I don't agree with - though it's probably better saved for it's own thread. Very Happy They should let the marketplace decide IMHO and concentrate on the massive corruption that takes place within its own organisation rather than in meddling in legal and legitimate businesses. eBay does give you other options for payment such as NOCHEX etc etc so they do offer a choice albiet limited. I wouldn't be suprised if some time soon Googlecheckout is allowed on eBay subject to a deal being done between themselves & Google.

I'll say again though eBay are certainly not perfect and lots of areas could do with improvement but IMHO that doesn't negate many of the positives.

Cheers

Steve
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eBay - Why Amazon Should Buy It? 
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